Do you have any evidence that China wants to squash our freedoms? It's a commonly made assumption--that China, like the US, thinks every country should adopt its system of government--but I'm not aware of any good evidence for it. OTOH, I haven't done an exhaustive search, so maybe there is some.
Do you have any evidence that China wants to squash our freedoms? It's a commonly made assumption--that China, like the US, thinks every country should adopt its system of government--but I'm not aware of any good evidence for it. OTOH, I haven't done an exhaustive search, so maybe there is some.
Thanks for the reply. I am sure you know both sides of the argument. Of course none of what follows is really "proof". The arguable evidene of China's intentions to dominate the world would include the following:
China's use of social media to spread disinformation/stroke divisive issues.
China's efforts to silence stories in the foreign media to avoid topics that they find offensive.
Using the belt and road program to gain leverage over politicians in other countries.
Using economic means to pressure or get corporations to self-censor when it comes to
China issues that they don't like aired.
Running a well honed intellectual property theft operation as well as from governments.
Election interference in democratic countries by funding political campaigns etc.
Supressing democratic movements successfully in Hong Kong and the current threat to Taiwan.
China openly promotes their model of goverment over what they see as the chaotic, inefficient and in decline of the democratic countries.
China has and is building ties with other authoritarian model countries by providing technology, funding and diplomatic cover. Russia being a big example.
China has a well organized and seemingly successful effort ongoing to intimidate and influence the Chinese diaspora.
Lets not get into human rights issues like the Uyghurs going on.
Now of course the counter argument would be these activities are all because of their fear that the USA is going to take them over if they can as well as the USA does a lot of the same things or has done a lot of the same things across the globe in history and today. Maybe all they really want is to protect their own regime so democracy does not enter China and/or all they want is dominance in their regional neighborhood.
It comes down to...in the words of inspector Callahan... "Do you feel lucky."? I don't feel lucky myself. I feel more Theodore Rooseveltesque with speak softly but carry a big stick. Thus they are not to be trusted and likely they think the same of the USA government. It seems to be a human condition we are unlikely to transend. We need an advanced universe visitor to come a la Michael Rennie in "The Day the Earth Sood Still" and tell us how they managed to get past this place humanity finds us in now. Unfortunatey they might say a strong dictatorship that resembles China... only better at it than China!
But so many of those issues don't address the question I raised, which was about whether China wants to make us adopt its system of government. You talk about China's policies re Hong Kong, Taiwan, the Uyghurs, etc.--there's a lot to criticize in those policies but they're not relevant to the question I asked. Neither is China's theft of our intellectual property, which has a straightforward economic motivation. And many of the issues you raise that arguably have some relevance to my question, I'd argue, really don't (e.g. China's ties with other authoritarian countries). And I'd say pretty much all Chinese attempts to influence discourse abroad can be explained as clumsy PR, without hypothesizing some plot to actually convert democracies into authoritarian autocracies. I'm not saying none of your points pose any challenge to my view--and if I had time I'd give the several most challenging of them the lengthy answers they deserve. But I'd encourage you to reflect on the question of why you responded to a specific and narrow question with such a broad and diffuse indictment of China. I think this dynamic captures a lot of our China discourse: People list lots of bad things about China and then assume those things add up to China being some kind of existential threat to America when, on close inspection, they don't.
Well you are indeed an expert on these things way beyond my level of thinking things through. That is why I continue to pay attention to you, support you and your work. In spite of all you have put forth over 9 years I still think and figure that the authoritarian politicians in the authoritarian governments, with China loomng as the largest threat of this type (and Russia right behind it...worse yet the theology driven like those in Iran) are most likely to want to dominate not just the spaces where they rule by fear, intimidation and violence now but they will always want more. Seems to be the nature of the beast to me. Evidently your thinking is otherwise. I do hope you are correct he says with a smile. I would love to be wrong about it all.
Do you have any evidence that China wants to squash our freedoms? It's a commonly made assumption--that China, like the US, thinks every country should adopt its system of government--but I'm not aware of any good evidence for it. OTOH, I haven't done an exhaustive search, so maybe there is some.
Thanks for the reply. I am sure you know both sides of the argument. Of course none of what follows is really "proof". The arguable evidene of China's intentions to dominate the world would include the following:
China's use of social media to spread disinformation/stroke divisive issues.
China's efforts to silence stories in the foreign media to avoid topics that they find offensive.
Using the belt and road program to gain leverage over politicians in other countries.
Using economic means to pressure or get corporations to self-censor when it comes to
China issues that they don't like aired.
Running a well honed intellectual property theft operation as well as from governments.
Election interference in democratic countries by funding political campaigns etc.
Supressing democratic movements successfully in Hong Kong and the current threat to Taiwan.
China openly promotes their model of goverment over what they see as the chaotic, inefficient and in decline of the democratic countries.
China has and is building ties with other authoritarian model countries by providing technology, funding and diplomatic cover. Russia being a big example.
China has a well organized and seemingly successful effort ongoing to intimidate and influence the Chinese diaspora.
Lets not get into human rights issues like the Uyghurs going on.
Now of course the counter argument would be these activities are all because of their fear that the USA is going to take them over if they can as well as the USA does a lot of the same things or has done a lot of the same things across the globe in history and today. Maybe all they really want is to protect their own regime so democracy does not enter China and/or all they want is dominance in their regional neighborhood.
It comes down to...in the words of inspector Callahan... "Do you feel lucky."? I don't feel lucky myself. I feel more Theodore Rooseveltesque with speak softly but carry a big stick. Thus they are not to be trusted and likely they think the same of the USA government. It seems to be a human condition we are unlikely to transend. We need an advanced universe visitor to come a la Michael Rennie in "The Day the Earth Sood Still" and tell us how they managed to get past this place humanity finds us in now. Unfortunatey they might say a strong dictatorship that resembles China... only better at it than China!
End rant he says with a smile.
But so many of those issues don't address the question I raised, which was about whether China wants to make us adopt its system of government. You talk about China's policies re Hong Kong, Taiwan, the Uyghurs, etc.--there's a lot to criticize in those policies but they're not relevant to the question I asked. Neither is China's theft of our intellectual property, which has a straightforward economic motivation. And many of the issues you raise that arguably have some relevance to my question, I'd argue, really don't (e.g. China's ties with other authoritarian countries). And I'd say pretty much all Chinese attempts to influence discourse abroad can be explained as clumsy PR, without hypothesizing some plot to actually convert democracies into authoritarian autocracies. I'm not saying none of your points pose any challenge to my view--and if I had time I'd give the several most challenging of them the lengthy answers they deserve. But I'd encourage you to reflect on the question of why you responded to a specific and narrow question with such a broad and diffuse indictment of China. I think this dynamic captures a lot of our China discourse: People list lots of bad things about China and then assume those things add up to China being some kind of existential threat to America when, on close inspection, they don't.
Well you are indeed an expert on these things way beyond my level of thinking things through. That is why I continue to pay attention to you, support you and your work. In spite of all you have put forth over 9 years I still think and figure that the authoritarian politicians in the authoritarian governments, with China loomng as the largest threat of this type (and Russia right behind it...worse yet the theology driven like those in Iran) are most likely to want to dominate not just the spaces where they rule by fear, intimidation and violence now but they will always want more. Seems to be the nature of the beast to me. Evidently your thinking is otherwise. I do hope you are correct he says with a smile. I would love to be wrong about it all.