I second your disapproval, but have to admit I personally don't see anything new here. That's a big part of what international relationships are: all of these so-called "great nations" (and Russia has great insecurity about its status as "a great nation", people feel they once was that and are supposed to be now, and yet neither the econ…
I second your disapproval, but have to admit I personally don't see anything new here. That's a big part of what international relationships are: all of these so-called "great nations" (and Russia has great insecurity about its status as "a great nation", people feel they once was that and are supposed to be now, and yet neither the economic situation at home, nor the treatment we get from the West allow them to feel "great"; paradoxically, the worsening of international relations does give this feeling to some: if we are feared/hated, then we are at least noticed, have to be accounted for) can't help but get into each other's business.
I mean, Lenin himself got aid from the German government to overthrow the Tsarist regime in Russia: https://www.dw.com/en/how-germany-got-the-russian-revolution-off-the-ground/a-41195312 (I recognize this is century-old news, bringing it up may feel a bit random—but this kind of historic memory still plays a role in how countries see one another; those old events still have effects on today.)
My personal feelings about the Russian meddling in the US elections—or maybe more precisely, Americans' reaction to the Russian meddling in the US elections—are to some extent defined by how I felt about American involvement in the Ukrainian revolution.
The Russian propaganda painted the whole thing as an American project. I found that appalling. Americans were clearly a part of the situation—I mean, McCain personally flew in from the other side of the world to address protestors from the stage in the main square of the capital, as they demanded the President to step down... Can you imagine something like that happening in the US, a foreign official addressing protestors in front of the Capitol? And yet, to use these kinds of things to try to take away the agency from the Ukrainian people who managed to take their own government down—not an easy task!—is just unfair. And the reason this was done is transparent: by dismissing the people's uprising in Ukraine as "being fueled by the West", you make it easier to dismiss protests at home the same way. I myself have been accused, numerous times, of being "paid by Hillary Clinton" for participating in anti-Putin protests in Russia.
So I feel similarly about Trump in the US. You shouldn't feel happy about Putin trying to influence American elections, and you shouldn't feel happy about Trump using that. But you shouldn't let this overshadow the fact that, at the end of the day, it was American citizens who voted for him. If your goal is to beat Trump in the upcoming election, you shouldn't take away the agency from his supporters, and you shouldn't avoid your own responsibility in losing to him the first time around. Focusing on Putin distracts you from political work.
(Just to reiterate: the above is my personal opinion, not "how Russians see the situation"—a step away from what I've been trying to do in this thread—but I hope this is still of some interest.)
Nikita, thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts. They dismay me a bit, but I appreciate your candidness. The gist reminds me of Mick Mulvaney’s defense of Trump’s behavior in turning the screw on Ukraine’s president for assistance in his 2020 bid: “We do that all the time. Get over it!” I think it’s important to call out bad actors whether the US, Russia, North Korea or China’s Current horrifying treatment of the Uighurs. What are we collectively willing to tolerate in a civilized world? http://www.openculture.com/2019/03/does-democracy-demand-the-tolerance-of-the-intolerant-karl-poppers-paradox.html
What sort of Mindful Resistance does Buddhism teach?
Oh, I agree it's important to call them out. But my feeling is Trump's opposition has been spending more time and energy on the calling out part than on preparing a candidate that would win in 2020. That puts them in danger of 4 more years of calling out.
And as for Putin: boy, there's a lot to call him out for; but that alone doesn't stop him, and in this case, I think, actually works in his favor. Obama called Russia "a regional power," but now it's seen as a big player on the global stage, determining the most important elections in the world. That’s something Putin wants and can use at home.
The sanctions the U.S. has imposed on Russia is a more serious deal than simply calling Putin out, but I'm not at all sure they were a wise step either. The sanctions harm the population of Russia much more than they do the government and the oligarchs, and they reinforce the conflict, so 1) ordinary Russians feel worse about America as a whole, and 2) I don't think they deter Putin from continuing his strategy.
Buddhism is all about "skillful action." It's not enough to call out injustice, or even to actively fight it—we need to fight it the right way; think through the consequences of our actions and make sure they lead to a decrease in overall suffering and to an ending to harmful cycles. I'm not sure what the right course of actions would be from this perspective, but I think Bob would say the answer lies in strengthening the international law. If we manage to establish a system where Putin, Trump, their successors, other world leaders all have to adhere to certain rules of behavior, and all have an authority (like an international court or council) that they respect or are forced to respect, then we stand a better chance at dealing with such problems in the future.
The problem is such a system is hard to establish, given that many influential actors—such as Russia and the US—have a bad record of respecting international agreements and can point to one another’s transgressions saying, like kids do, “he started it!”
I second your disapproval, but have to admit I personally don't see anything new here. That's a big part of what international relationships are: all of these so-called "great nations" (and Russia has great insecurity about its status as "a great nation", people feel they once was that and are supposed to be now, and yet neither the economic situation at home, nor the treatment we get from the West allow them to feel "great"; paradoxically, the worsening of international relations does give this feeling to some: if we are feared/hated, then we are at least noticed, have to be accounted for) can't help but get into each other's business.
I mean, Lenin himself got aid from the German government to overthrow the Tsarist regime in Russia: https://www.dw.com/en/how-germany-got-the-russian-revolution-off-the-ground/a-41195312 (I recognize this is century-old news, bringing it up may feel a bit random—but this kind of historic memory still plays a role in how countries see one another; those old events still have effects on today.)
My personal feelings about the Russian meddling in the US elections—or maybe more precisely, Americans' reaction to the Russian meddling in the US elections—are to some extent defined by how I felt about American involvement in the Ukrainian revolution.
The Russian propaganda painted the whole thing as an American project. I found that appalling. Americans were clearly a part of the situation—I mean, McCain personally flew in from the other side of the world to address protestors from the stage in the main square of the capital, as they demanded the President to step down... Can you imagine something like that happening in the US, a foreign official addressing protestors in front of the Capitol? And yet, to use these kinds of things to try to take away the agency from the Ukrainian people who managed to take their own government down—not an easy task!—is just unfair. And the reason this was done is transparent: by dismissing the people's uprising in Ukraine as "being fueled by the West", you make it easier to dismiss protests at home the same way. I myself have been accused, numerous times, of being "paid by Hillary Clinton" for participating in anti-Putin protests in Russia.
So I feel similarly about Trump in the US. You shouldn't feel happy about Putin trying to influence American elections, and you shouldn't feel happy about Trump using that. But you shouldn't let this overshadow the fact that, at the end of the day, it was American citizens who voted for him. If your goal is to beat Trump in the upcoming election, you shouldn't take away the agency from his supporters, and you shouldn't avoid your own responsibility in losing to him the first time around. Focusing on Putin distracts you from political work.
(Just to reiterate: the above is my personal opinion, not "how Russians see the situation"—a step away from what I've been trying to do in this thread—but I hope this is still of some interest.)
Nikita, thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts. They dismay me a bit, but I appreciate your candidness. The gist reminds me of Mick Mulvaney’s defense of Trump’s behavior in turning the screw on Ukraine’s president for assistance in his 2020 bid: “We do that all the time. Get over it!” I think it’s important to call out bad actors whether the US, Russia, North Korea or China’s Current horrifying treatment of the Uighurs. What are we collectively willing to tolerate in a civilized world? http://www.openculture.com/2019/03/does-democracy-demand-the-tolerance-of-the-intolerant-karl-poppers-paradox.html
What sort of Mindful Resistance does Buddhism teach?
Oh, I agree it's important to call them out. But my feeling is Trump's opposition has been spending more time and energy on the calling out part than on preparing a candidate that would win in 2020. That puts them in danger of 4 more years of calling out.
And as for Putin: boy, there's a lot to call him out for; but that alone doesn't stop him, and in this case, I think, actually works in his favor. Obama called Russia "a regional power," but now it's seen as a big player on the global stage, determining the most important elections in the world. That’s something Putin wants and can use at home.
The sanctions the U.S. has imposed on Russia is a more serious deal than simply calling Putin out, but I'm not at all sure they were a wise step either. The sanctions harm the population of Russia much more than they do the government and the oligarchs, and they reinforce the conflict, so 1) ordinary Russians feel worse about America as a whole, and 2) I don't think they deter Putin from continuing his strategy.
Buddhism is all about "skillful action." It's not enough to call out injustice, or even to actively fight it—we need to fight it the right way; think through the consequences of our actions and make sure they lead to a decrease in overall suffering and to an ending to harmful cycles. I'm not sure what the right course of actions would be from this perspective, but I think Bob would say the answer lies in strengthening the international law. If we manage to establish a system where Putin, Trump, their successors, other world leaders all have to adhere to certain rules of behavior, and all have an authority (like an international court or council) that they respect or are forced to respect, then we stand a better chance at dealing with such problems in the future.
The problem is such a system is hard to establish, given that many influential actors—such as Russia and the US—have a bad record of respecting international agreements and can point to one another’s transgressions saying, like kids do, “he started it!”